Daniel Schwarcz-Jun-26-2026-07-24-18-4784-AM
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Podcast

Questioning Everything We Think We Know About AI in Law ft. Daniel Schwarcz

43:05 min

The impact of AI on law has been studied through the narrow lens of productivity and profitability. But the reality is much broader than that. In this episode of Between the Briefs by Steno, Adrian Cea and Joe Stephens welcome back Daniel Schwarcz, Professor at the University of Minnesota Law School to discuss groundbreaking empirical research on how AI impacts lawyer performance, legal reasoning and long-term professional development.

What You’ll Learn:

  • How to move beyond benchmarking studies to measure what actually matters
  • Why reasoning models and retrieval-augmented generation (RAG) platforms deliver measurable improvements
  • The counterintuitive finding that using AI for research strengthens independent legal reasoning when AI is unavailable
  • How litigation work benefits more measurably from current AI tools than transactional work
  • The critical distinction between confidentiality risks and genuine professional concerns
  • Why high-valuation legal tech firms like Harvey and Legora face competitive pressure from accessible alternatives

 

This episode challenges everything we think we know about AI’s cognitive impact on lawyers and their practice.

Quotes:

  • "I'm excited about this new paper I have that tries to look at not only what the effect on quality and speed is of using AI on legal tasks, but also what the effect is on the ability of people who are using AI to reason when the AI is taken away from them. I think that's an important step in trying to understand the broader scenario that all lawyers and members of the legal academy more generally are facing right now."
  • "The mere fact that an AI can do well on an exam or on a task doesn't really answer the question most lawyers want answered, which is: how will I perform when I use AI compared to how I perform when I don't use AI? You can't extrapolate from the fact that an AI performs well on its own to the fact that if I use an AI, I'll start performing well on my own."
  • The basic interpretation is that AI helped our participants understand the legal source material better - they understood the case law better, they understood the law better. That produces benefits that persist even when they no longer have AI."
  • "The study made me more confident than I would otherwise be that using these tools can be beneficial in many ways, even in ways that aren't fully intuitive.”
  • "In some contexts, the practice of law will absolutely look like AI judgment being primary with humans handling exceptions - like in will drafting where an AI handles the initial draft and a human checks it. But in other settings with massive human elements like counseling clients or talking to judges, AI won't be a substitute because the human element is essential."

Highlights

00:00
Introduction & Meeting Professor Daniel Schwarcz 2.0

02:09
How AI Progress Has Defied Earlier Predictions

03:34
Getting into the Research: New Findings & More 

05:56
Why Randomized Controlled Trials Matter for Lawyers

10:47
Reasoning Models vs. RAG: Choosing the Right AI Architecture for Your Practice

16:40
How and Why AI Research Skills Persist Even When Technology is Removed

23:00
Legal Tech Vendors, Study Citations & Navigating Selective Evidence

26:43
Why It’s Critical to Use Foundation Models Responsibly

30:02
AI's Role in Access to Justice & Pro Se Litigants and Future Research

About the Contributors

Joe Stephens

Joe Stephens, J.D., is Steno's Director of Legal Solutions as well as a Clinical Lecturer at Texas Tech University School of Law. With over 15 years of experience in criminal defense and public service, he founded and led Texas' largest rural public defender office, which serves a 12-county area. A graduate of The University of Texas School of Law (cum laude) and Vanderbilt University (B.A.), Stephens currently serves as a Board Member of the Texas Criminal Defense Lawyer's Association (TCDLA) and sits on multiple State Bar of Texas committees. His expertise spans the intersection of legal practice and technological innovation in the justice system.

Adrian Cea

Adrian Cea is Steno's Social Media Manager, leading content strategy, audience engagement, and digital brand-building across platforms. He also produces and co-hosts Between the Briefs, Steno's podcast covering the intersection of legal technology, court reporting, and the future of litigation. With a background spanning content creation, field marketing, and sales at companies like Sell Better and Chili Piper, Adrian brings a multi-disciplined lens to making complex legal tech topics accessible and engaging.